VC10 grounding Nov. 1983

[Vic E.Ten]

Hi everyone!
I have just found this excellent website devoted to the Queen of the Skies..well it is now Concorde has gone!
OK, my query is what was the nature of the grounding of all RAF VC10's in Nov.1983? I know it was, cos my flight to Ascension was changed to a C130 from Lyneham..14 hours instead of 8! I seem to recall it something to do with the ailerons, and the one we had at ASI (XR808 I think) didnt fly for ages...
I did manage to fly home on XV106, 8 hours non stop...lovely!

I now live in Cardiff, and still hear that banshee howl sometimes, when one is testing out of St Athan..sometimes I get to see one do a lovely low flyby at Cardiff airport, where I now work...
Long may She rule the skies!

[Murray Keene]

Hmmm (scratches head) I 'll have to get the old brain working here. I was at Brize when this happened on LSS but I dont immediately recall what the grounding was for. I believe it was a safety bulletin or something.

[LSS]

Was this when they replaced all the flying control cable runs ? I seem to remember that it was about this time but for the life of me can't remember why it all came about.
I do recall the riggers hanging out of searches for days and nights replacing the runs.

[Vic E.Ten]

Yep that was it!
I remember being told nothing by the movers at the check in at Brize, so we found out what was going on from the BBC, on the telly in the departures hall!
The word we had was that a VC10 had landed in Germany with no aileron control, and that the runs were shot....seems a bit serious! Anyone know any more than that? Has it happened since?

[Vic E. Ten]

Gawd..this forum is reopening the memory banks now!
When I flew home in May 84 from ASI. I noticed the ailerons were reflexed up the whole time..about 5 degrees I would say...was this a result of the control runs fiasco, or something else?
I should point out I am merely an ex RAF air trafficker...not a techie in any way! Although some of my best friends were sumpys and riggers!
I went to St Athan yesterday, to try and see what was left..I saw one forlorn 10, just a fuselage and half a fin....what a shame....

[Laurieg]

Flying home from ASI you tended to be at high fuel loads etc.

What you probably saw, Vic E Ten, was Aileron upset. At high AUW, the ailerons can be selected to 'Upset'. This deflects the control approx 7 deg up. This action acts as a lift dump/relief on the outer wing at high weights. If you had carried on looking as you climbed you would see it run off at about FL 240. (Think that was the altitude).

[LSS]

There has been no further problems with the control runs that I am aware of.

[Murray Keene]

SEARCHES OMG that brings back memories I was stuck up in one for 3 hours one night as the engine packed in when I was on top of the tail sat inside the bullet fairing doing something, I had the saddle panel off so I must have been checking the trim screw jack or something! It was -26 one of the coldest nights recorded. Luckily I had three sets of clothes on AND the rubber de-icing one piece suit VERY KINKY! However I still got hyperthermia and ended up in sick bay.

I remember the cable caper now, we had birds nests of old cable lying all over the shop and there was a fight to get hold of CTR's (cable tension regulators) and the test guages used to set up the tension along the control cable.

On air tests I have actually seen the ailerons FLUTTER. Standing in the centre of the cabin in flat floor (no seats) and looking left and right VERY HAIRY seeing the control surfaces doing that. A frequent thing we used to see on stalls was the skins over the undercarriage bays RIPPLING now that WAS scary.

I was a really strange feeling as the left seat jockey pulled the nose up and pulled the blowers back to idle you could sense at what point that aircraft no longer wanted to fly and dumped her nose down! A klaxon would sound (that used to make your stomach heave as you knew she had stalled) and the nitrogen stick pusher would slam the yoke into the combing. Watching closely out of the porthole you saw a clear wave effect over the wing as the aircraft nosed down and loaded the wings. You would also see the wings actually bending up - phenominal.

I believe the VC10 wing was built to withstand about 10 feet deflection! The 777 goes to 13 feet before it fails! I wish we had had those tiny wireless cameras in those days and laptops. I would have loved to have set up a camera in the tail 'bullet' to cover the airframe during airtest. The video of that would have made great watching and a training aid.

[nickwilcock]

The problem was indeed caused by a failure in the aileron control circuit.

I'd only just arrived at Brize and my room overlooked the runway - once the snag had been fixed, the effect of several days of recovering schedules at some ungodly hour of the night was pretty rowdy!

I once had to land a VC10 when there was an aileron circuit jam - reasonably easy using spoilers only, but the crosswind limit is there for a reason. Having no roll control at small control column deflexions was rather an odd feeling though!

[vc10boy]

i remember tvam having the story as headline news that morning in 1983, they even had a film crew at brize, i remember they filmed the tais of a few tens that where lined up and played whale noises over the film footage, i think they where trying to say the tens where dying, bit premature perhaps....made front pages of a few news papers at the time, i kept a cutting from one.