ZA150 at wings and wheels

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export10
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ZA150 at wings and wheels

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Jelle Hieminga
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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by Jelle Hieminga »

Hello, just a note from the sideline as it were. I'm not involved in the organisation of either event but would like to clarify some points:
  • I may have translated the 2 pound entry fee wrong. If you look at the article on the Wings & Wheels site here: http://www.wingsandwheels.net/news/item ... tours.html it states that 'a donation of 2 pounds is suggested' (my emphasis). So you do not have to pay for entry. The number of places is still limited though.
  • ZA150 is a K3 tanker and thus has five large tanks in its cabin. Getting large numbers of people through this airframe can be tricky as the passageways besides the tanks are narrow. This issue is less problematic with ZD241 as the fuselage of a K4 tanker is completely empty (apart from a few seats). This may be one of the reasons that the group at Dunsfold has chosen to work with allocated tickets.
  • If you're only going for the VC10 then you might see more at Bruntingthorpe as ZD241 will most likely perform a taxi run. If you're going for the other displays as well, the line-up at Dunsfold is pretty impressive. (two Lancasters, Vulcan, Canberra, B-25 etc.) and may show more flying aircraft than at Bruntingthorpe. On the other hand you can get pretty close up to the action at Bruntingthorpe while the display line at Dunsfold will most likely be a bit further away from the crowds.
Again, I'm not trying to push anyone in any direction but I got the message wrong about the 2 pounds for ZA150 and at least wanted to correct that! The rest is just my view and does not reflect the view of either the Dunsfold event organisation or the Bruntingthorpe organisations.
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export10
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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by Jelle Hieminga »

I fear that the Facebook page may give the wrong impression then. If you read these posts from Paul: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1022 then you'll see that they are just as disappointed as you that the aircraft won't run at the event.

Running the aircraft and taxiing it is an integral part of keeping the airframe and its systems in good condition. The VC10 is in the hands of a team of qualified engineers with experience on VC10s, for some on this particular airframe in its EAA days. They are doing their work voluntarily so that others can enjoy the experience of a 'live' VC10. Sadly organisational issues are preventing them from showing ZA150 off in front of the spectators at Wings & Wheels. I don't know the specifics and don't need to know them to realise that this is a huge disappointment for all of us, first of all for the team looking after her.

The Brooklands Museum and the team looking after ZA150 have taken on quite a task but I'm sure that it will be a great boost for them if as many people as possible will visit ZA150 over the weekend and perhaps leave a donation to support their hard work.
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export10
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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by 1103 »

Thanks Jelle for clarifying matters.

Wings & Wheels as I understand it is primarily run for charities - this year it is for The Brooklands Museum Trust & Help for Heroes. See:-

http://www.wingsandwheels.net/about/charities.html

So there is no direct feed through of gate receipts to ZA150.

There has been a typo on the W&W website, the £2.00 charge is a small entry fee NOT a voluntary donation that will go towards the upkeep of ZA150. The ticket numbers are limited to ensure everybody gets to go on board at an allotted time time so there are no long queues. Up to now any consumables we have used, for example, Hyd fluid, Engine Oil etc have come from kind donations by British Airways, Virgin Atlantic & Babcock International. This weekend Virgin Atlantic are letting us borrow a GPU.

Jelle is correct in saying numbers have to be limited on ZA150 due to the fuselage tanks and the trip hazards in the tank compartment. As you will have seen on the FB page we have even unsealed the RH aft door to enable us the increase visitor flow through. As we are a static exhibit we will be opening up the HDU bay, engine cowlings, dropping a MLG door and opening up a wing pod. Don't overlook the fact that 99.5% of show visitors are members of the general public, not VC10 aficionados, who have never seen a VC10 or for that matter any large aircraft with the panels opened up. The Dunsfold 747 crew say that the public like walking round the outside, because that is what they don't normally see. Whilst on the subject of the 747, that will attract a £5.00 pp charge to go on board.

With regard to yesterday's taxi run that was the first time we have been able to taxi the aircraft since it arrived due to various - non-technical - issues. The three runs down the r/way was to give the brakes and steering a good work out as they are the only systems that we are not able to function on a ground run. We would love to publicise any taxi runs we do in the future but yesterday right up to the moment we got the a/c on the runway we weren't sure we would be allowed to carry out the taxi. Brooklands are just guests of Dunsfold Park and we have to fit in around their businesses -a major one being McLaren Cars who frequently book the runway for the day.

Incidentally it was not an easy job to get 150 on to the runway. Google earth Dunsfold. The a/c had to be towed around the southern taxiway that is normally a road, past road signs and other tall objects without hitting them. We couldn't use the old runways because one has a 747 on it and the other has a experimental traffic light junction in the middle of it - something to do with TfL.

We did not run 150 "to privately run the jet up and down the runway for there own pleasure and enjoyment rather then saving it for when it can do it in public.". Right up to the day I posted that there would be no hi-speed run we were expecting to have a slot on the W&W programme but for reasons outside the teams control it wasn't to be. Nobody was more disappointed than ourselves about this turn of events. Believe me, being full time employed I'm not going to spend many hours of my free time just to look after a static exhibit that I could do when I have retired.

On the plus side of yesterdays taxi, the proprietors of Dunsfold Park were there to witness the event and we well pleased with it so hopefully that has sown the seed with them to allow it to happen again

If you want to visit '150 any time drop me a PM and I see what I can arrange.

I hope I have answered your concerns export10, but if not don't hesitate to post on the thread, the same applies to anybody else, and I will try to answer.

Paul

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by 1103 »

Have you ever been to the Brooklands Museum? It's not just a few aircraft.

The museum has many projects that need funding. To qualify for lottery funding you have to put up some some of your own cash.

This is the current big project http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/index.p ... rooklands/.
export10 wrote:
It's also a shame that a fantastic servant for the RAF is being made so inaccessible by brooklands. I understand that you are guests at dunsfold park but surely the museum should have thought of this prior to taking her their.


It was only the day before '150 arrived that the authorities reached an agreement to sell her to Brooklands so it was all very last minute.com. The alternative was GJD breaking up the last VC10 ever built and the last aircraft to be constructed and flown out of Brooklands. Was that a better alternative?

Where would you suggest a museum located in Weybridge, Surrey should have put her?

The intention of the MoD & BAe was to decommission her as per 148 at Newquay. It was only because a few licensed engineers such a myself stepped forward to 'play' with her that we have two operable VC10's. I will also say 'playing' with ZA150 is a lot more difficult down south than it is at Bruntingthorp. We have minimal access equipment, no GPU of our own and we have to rely on the good will of our supporters - as detailed in my previous post - to help us. It could have been very reasonable to just walk away when we started to encounter problems such as an inop APU, lack of access equipment etc but we have stuck at it and overcome. These problems are starting to be resolved, but they can be resolved a lot quicker with your £2.00 - less than the price of a pint, which two hours later you will be jettisoning in the gent's.

**Please don't think I am knocking GJD or the VC10der Loving Carers group, I'm just saying the carers group are very lucky to have an organisation like GJD to help & support them**

To have our efforts described as 'playing' when we have replaced the APU (with the help of equipment supplied by GJD), obtained a supply of engine & hydraulic oil, unsealed and removed a door to get the a/c more accessible to the public and generally maintained her for 11 months in a running condition really sticks in the craw.

Everybody involved with ZA150 from the museum trustee's down want to show her off whenever possible.

Paul

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by bobisqueen »

Export10, I suggest you step back and think about what your saying. No offence, but your giving Paul a hard time when all he is doing is helping keep ZA150 alive and answer your questions best he can.

Im part of the team that keeps 241 alive and Brunty and its by no means a easy task and while myself and the other team members enjoy what we do, we don't play with it, which is NO different to the boys on 150. We ALL do it because we want to show these wonderful and fantastic British engineered aircraft to all, not as you say because we want a play.

Brunty and Brooklands open days are totally different things and its hard to compare them together, so im not going to, But I would like to point out that 241 and 150 will be going strong for years to come and we also have a good relationship between each crew which has been good for both parties.

Maintaining these aircraft is a time consuming task of which we all do for free in our own time. We at 241 struggle for equipment the same as 150 as we have to work round GJD's business priorities and also Brunty, like Brooklands is used by many other people and many different activities so often we are at the mercy of what is going on.

I must admit, i find your comments rather harsh!

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by ACLVC10 »

I'm gunna keep mine short and sweet but it's going to be harsh on some, well one individual......expert10 I believe you should engage brain before writing.
I think both teams at Brooklands and Bruntingthorpe are doing a great job with the resources and funds they have accessible to them, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK and don't take no notice of the ones that sit here and just want to criticise everything positive thing you do.

Andy
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export10
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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by ACLVC10 »

I agree with you there but it's just the manner in which you have said it, I think it has ruffled a few people feathers, including mine.

Andy
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export10
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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

Post by ACLVC10 »

Agreed, both Newquay and Bruntingthorpe are doing a better job at showing her off but Brooklands is a bigger set up and these things take longer to achieve because of the financial pressures of a bigger outfit etc......

Andy
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export10
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Re: ZA150 at wings and wheels

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