lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Any VC10 related discussions.....
Ron
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Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Ron »

Hello all.

As an avid reader of this Forum for some months, I feel it is a little unfortunate that I must correct a number of statements made over the current survivors as my first posting. Hopefully you will bear with me over this and understand and appreciate the current situation once you have read the following.....

Comment has been made that Gary Spoors of GJD hasn't confirmed what the real situation is, leading to a lot of speculation over which of 147, 241 or 808 is to be retained as the runner, to be moved by road to Cosford, or of course be scrapped. Speculation has been rife not just on this Forum but on a number of others as well. Even today at Bruntingthorpe I was told by someone who insisted he was 'in the know' that none of them - other than their cockpits - would actually be preserved.

The reality of the situation - and the reason for lack of confirmation by Gary - is simply that as at today he still doesn't know. The final decision does not rest with Gary, but with a number of British organisations - both public and private sector - who ultimately will be putting up a great chunk of the money required to keep two of our beloved VC10's in existance past the end of November, the original date by which the remaining VC10 airframes had to be scrapped, as indicated by the MOD. Believe me, the overall cost of retaining two of the three remaining airframes really is an astronomical amount of money and no doubt once the final situation has been established, assistance both in the form of financial donations and voluntary labour will no doubt be more than appreciated by those responsible at both Cosford and Bruntingthorpe, where it is hoped two of the airframes will finally reside.....

GJD were employed to put together a recommendation to the responsible bodies involved, around the three remaining airframes - clearly 147, 241 and 808. Reality is 808/BOB has always been the RAF Museum favoured airframe for display at Cosford, for obvious reasons. BOB was never likely to have flown into Cosford this year. It was nothing to do with 'Health and Safety' (as has been posted on a various websites since BOB flew into Bruntingthorpe, which clearly opened up discussions over this subject) or the lack of ability of the then current RAF aircrew to repeat the exploits of the British Airways crew some 20/25 years ago (I forget exactly how long ago now !). The reality is Health and Safety have no say whatsoever over the rules and regulations relating to the flying by civil and miltary aircraft in the UK, and trees have grown in the vicinity of Cosford, reducing by a decent margin the LDA (Landing Distance Available) at Cosford. Something that was marginal at best when the BA VC10 flew in years ago, is no longer marginal. It was a non-starter. The days of removing trees as obstructions at airports for preservation purposes have unfortunately long since passed.

GJD's proposal is as follows :
808 : to be dismantled at Bruntingthorpe and roaded to Cosford where it will be reassembled for display
241 : to be retained as a runner at Bruntingthorpe
147 : to be scrapped

808 was flown to Bruntingthorpe (not Coventry or Birmingham) as although no final decision had been taken over its future, it was where GJD are based who would ultimately either disassemble (for moving) or scrap it. Coventry is clearly closer than Bruntngthorpe to Cosford but quite simply GJD have no presence there.
147 is a K3. Two other K3 examples have been preserved, one at Newquay and one by Brooklands but presently at Dunsfold.
241 is the only remaining K4 and clearly retains its passenger interior, something that is quite useful as the retained airframe is expected to earn its keep from business meetings etc, as does the Olympic 747.

Should GJD's proposal be accepted, the engines and other all other necessary components will be transplanted across from 147, which sadly will be scrapped. However, it is hoped that 241 will have run its engines by Christmas and will be fit and ready for action at the first Open Day in May 2014.

Should GJD's proposal NOT be accepted then who knows what will happen. Any one or more of a number of permutations might be the outcome. There might not be any money forthcoming at all but fingers crossed that is not very likely. However, that could still happen - if so get ready to dig deep once again. First, the Philippines, then Children in Need. Then Save a Runner???

No doubt Gary will confirm to all once he is able to do so, but with no official notification date, who knows how imminent or otherwise that is likely to be. Until such time as that final outcome is known, please treat any statements regarding 147, 241 and 808 as speculation - as that is all that they are in reality - speculation.

Please accept my sincere apologies if any of this posting reads a little direct or 'telling off' in any way. Clearly that is not the intention, but I thought it only right to make clear the real situation as I get ready to crawl into my bed tonight after another enjoyable day at Bruntingthorpe today.
Last edited by Ron on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ron
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Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Ron »

AJW wrote:Last I heard, around £28k
Add £10000 to that and you're a little closer to the price required to buy one from the MOD, excluding engines.
Once delivered, you then had to stand the cost of removing the engines and returning them at your own expense. Not cheap.....

The cost of dismantling any aircraft is a very costly business. As can be appreciated, the process involved is entirely different to what it takes to scrap it !
Road transport with its escorts, cost of special load permits etc, certainly isn't cheap either.
And then you have the problems of re-assembling it.
Unless you really know what you are doing or know experts with lots of free time on their hands who can assist, such projects as always are great ideas. Unfortunately they always turn out to be non-starters.

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Thumper
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Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Thumper »

Hello Ron,

Nice to have you on the forum. Thank you for the informative post with regards to the current VC10 situation and all the information regarding logistics and figures, very insightful.

May I ask what your current involvement with the VC10 is as you seem to be a man that knows the score?

Manofmendip
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:58 pm
Location: Midsomer Norton

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Manofmendip »

Hi Ron

Welcome and thank you for your post.

As one of the two coordinators of the 'VC10der Loving Carers' group I keep in contact with Gary, who is also a group member, and our group will be working with him to assist with maintaining and operating which ever frame he manages to obtain as the 'runner'. Membership of our group is currently free but there will be a membership structure after the first general meeting of the group, which will be held, hopefully at Bruntingthorpe, once Gary and I have had a meeting and he advises me that we are ready to formerly set up a group committee/board and move the project forward.

Please PM me with your contact details if you would like to be a group member.

Initially GJD will have control and will set up a maintenance schedule to give the frame a long service life, and the group, which has some members with considerable VC10 air & ground crew experience, will assist GJD with cleaning, maintenance etc. We will also be seeking to obtain our own ground support equipment.

I agree with you that 241 has advantages over 147 in terms of a possible passenger fit out, for revenue earning purposes. For my part ZD241 (ex. G-ASGM) is the last BOAC Super and I have fond memories of these at Wisley, in my teens. I also worked at Weybridge in the Main Design Office Drawing Library, where I met Ernie Marshall, the Senior Project Engineer on the VC10 programme many times.

Best regards.

Dave Simmonds
VC10der Loving Carers Group.

Lee606
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Lee606 »

Whats the latest with ZA147? In bits im guessing?

Simon Tidswell
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Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Simon Tidswell »

Slightly off track but still about Brize, in the absence of such a good following as the VC-10 has, can anyone in the know keep us informed of the wind down of the Tristar fleet.
They too have served us well, stepping up to the plate after the Falklands and it would be a shame to see them go without some recognition.
Is the end due still in March?

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vc10boy
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Location: East Ruston Norfolk

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by vc10boy »

will any bits of 147 be kept to help ex GASG-M ,vital spares as 147 is the last vc10 to be scrapped at brunty...wot list of bits would you save from her to keep GASG-M runner for years and years to come?...any pics of 147 being dismantled?...hope 147,s cockpit or better still her tail could be saved?
vc10boy,s photo,s of VC10,s over the years...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/116993858@N08/sets/

Gsxr600
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Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Gsxr600 »

Simon Tidswell wrote:Slightly off track but still about Brize, in the absence of such a good following as the VC-10 has, can anyone in the know keep us informed of the wind down of the Tristar fleet.
They too have served us well, stepping up to the plate after the Falklands and it would be a shame to see them go without some recognition.
Is the end due still in March?
Yes I'd really like to know about this too, if anyone can help. Last I heard was possible/probably 6 month extension but havnt heard anything to say if this will be needed yet.

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Thumper
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Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Thumper »

I was glazed over half watching a programme on Channel 5 tonight called "Too fat to fly" when to my surprise I saw (G-ASIX) the Sultan of Oman's VC10 on the screen. Only a few seconds worth but thought it was worth a mention!

Here's a screen shot

Image

Available to watch now on 5 demand;

http://www.channel5.com/shows/too-fat-t ... fat-to-fly

Jelle Hieminga
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lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Jelle Hieminga »

Simon Tidswell wrote:Slightly off track but still about Brize, in the absence of such a good following as the VC-10 has, can anyone in the know keep us informed of the wind down of the Tristar fleet.
I think we had a Tristar topic down in the general chatter corner with some knowledgeable types contributing, it might be worth having a look down there.

viewtopic.php?t=757
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Rover75
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Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:30 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Rover75 »

There seemed to be a complete tail section languishing in the background at Bruntingthorpe on 25th Sept, would be nice to see it saved fitted to Brooklands VM.

Cheers

Mike

Foxdelta211f-bvfd
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 11:38 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Foxdelta211f-bvfd »

It would be great to see 'VM with a tail again but I sadly doubt it will happen....
there is no reason for it not to however.....

Is there any news of the Bruntingthorpe 'tens....

Ron
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Ron »

Lee606 wrote:Whats the latest with ZA147? In bits im guessing?
Still pretty much intact at the moment as final confirmations over exactly what is to happen are still awaited, although some work has been undertaken. Things really seem to be dragging on - and on.

Sorry I've not posted for some time. My health is not the best at the moment. Other problems in the family haven't helped. And to top it all, I lost my closest buddy 23rd December. What a way to end a year. His cremation was 1015 2nd January, the first of 2014. What a way to start a year....

I know there is a seperate thread, but with time pressing and I really should be in bed..... as always, speculation rules. As always, subject to FINAL confirmation... the flying Tristar fleet is looking as though it will end its days at Bruntingthorpe. The two at Cambridge look as though they will be scrapped by 'outside' contractors rather than by Marshalls. All contracts have yet to be let.

Ron
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Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:00 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Ron »

A last look at a complete 147 in the sun at Bruntingthorpre 25th November, before the engines were removed.
Attachments
Royal Air Force SVC10 ZA147 Bruntingthorpe 25.11.13 eos5zz800.jpg

Simon Tidswell
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Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: lets keep a close eye on the survivors

Post by Simon Tidswell »

Old habits die hard, who attached the Remove before flight tags ?

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