what now for last K3s and the last K4

Any VC10 related discussions.....
buccaners2
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what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by buccaners2 »

After seeing BOB safely arriving at bruntingthorpe today,for I hope a very secure future it had me wondering about the future of the last 3 K3s(147, 148, 150) and the last K4(241).For these to just be lost in aviation history would be a real shame, i can't understand why after all the museum interest when the nimrods where demobbed they couldn't find space or money for the VC10, I remember airbase at coventry (now at newquay airport) showing an interest in adding a VC10 to there collection but no interest in saving one now,the only museum willing to save one was in scotland but they couldn't raise the cash.If these last ones are scraped come September then 1 the only thing this forum could talk about is BOB and that would become boring after a while and 2 we wouldn't be able to show future generations examples of the best in-flight refuelling aircraft in the world,i think these different variants are worth saving,in my eyes anyway.
Last edited by buccaners2 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Magnum
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Magnum »

ZD241 is already at Bruntingthorpe I think.

ZA147 departed for the Falklands today amid rumours she is to remain there forever.

148 and 150 are due to make their final landing on 23rd September. :(

buccaners2
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by buccaners2 »

The trouble is that ZD241 is heading for the scrap bin now bruntingthorpe has 808, now to me with 241 being the last K4 left don't you think this would be a waste?.
Last edited by buccaners2 on Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Magnum
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Magnum »

Sadly it comes down to money.

buccaners2
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by buccaners2 »

What a sad world we live in, the classic car seen don't have this trouble

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Thumper
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Thumper »

The problem is the classic car scene a) don't have to pay large amounts of money for an example, b) a lot of classic cars are donated to museums, c) it costs next to nothing to transport, say, a Mini from Lands End to John O'Groats but I would imagine it costs an obscene amount to transport a VC-10 by road and finally d) a classic car costs a lot less to maintain than a large tanker.

It is a dreadful shame that a Super '10 cannot be preserved, Duxford's example aside, 241 would have been the nicest one to keep in my opinion.

I wonder what Cosford's view is now that they have lost Bob, perhaps they would like to save 241 instead if they have the coins to get her there that is.

Manofmendip
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Manofmendip »

Dear All

The future of the K3s, well, what is it?

Many of you will be aware that we set up the group 'VC10der Loving Carers - Keep a VC10 flying' with the aim of buying either ZA147 or ZA150 to keep in flying condition; these two frames being the ones with the longest time to run before the next Major. The group has 33 members but no money and the two founders, Wolfgang Borgmann & myself, have little time, with our own businesses to run, to devote as much time to the group as we would both like; the group members need to meet and form a proper committee/board of directors to take it forward. In Wolfgang's case he also has two other aircraft projects live in Germany/USA; the Hansajet in Hamburg (nearing completion to flying condition); and the Lufthansa Technik project to return a Lockheed L1649A Starliner to flying condition and bring it from the USA to the Lufthansa historic flight in Germany (now also nearing completion with engine runs etc), where it will be used on charter flights and, on special occasions, on scheduled flights too. Germany seems to have a great asset in Lufthansa, who are interested in their company heritage and in actively keeping examples of their former fleet in flying condition.

Our group is still in existence, albeit doing very little now, and new members are very welcome (PM me if you are interested) membership is currently free and open to anyone with any interest in the VC10. However, a group of wistful, moist eyed enthusiasts will not achieve what the group was formed to do. We require an active, vibrant membership with a proper management structure and ideas as to how to raise the £1.5M needed for the first 2 years of the project - our preference would be through corporate partnering/sponsorship - and how to convince BAe Systems, Rolls-Royce, the CAA et al to support us, then Wolfgang and I would be very interested to hear from you but time is running out fast. If we had the money then Gary has said that he would help us, he said to me, when I met with him in March, "A group of a 1,000 enthusiasts will achieve nothing without finance; with the money, anything is possible but without the money, nothing is". This is an obvious statement many of you may think but he is just making us focus on this vital point. Whether the group can or cannot achieve its goal then regardless we will certainly support Gary in whatever he is able to do to keep a 'live' VC10 for ground runs at Bruntingthorpe.

The VC10 community has it in its hands to raise this money and to form a proper committee/board of directors for our group so that it can be properly incorporated, so that we can make grant applications etc. and, perhaps, get charitable status too so that we can let Gary/MOD/DSA know that we are not only interested but now have the legal incorporation of the group and financial means too.

Best regards.

Dave

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Tonkenna
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Tonkenna »

Sorry Dave, but I strongly believe that it is a hopeless ambition to keep one flying. Far better to raise the money (far less money) to get one properly preserved undercover... the appetite of the general public will not be there to keep an old airliner flying... Far far better to have a really good example kept properly on the ground, the 10 is just too complicated to keep her going; just ask the RAF!

Tonks :cry:
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Manofmendip
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Manofmendip »

Hi Tonks

I've sent you a PM.

Best regards.

Dave

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ACLVC10
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by ACLVC10 »

Tonkenna wrote:Sorry Dave, but I strongly believe that it is a hopeless ambition to keep one flying. Far better to raise the money (far less money) to get one properly preserved undercover... the appetite of the general public will not be there to keep an old airliner flying... Far far better to have a really good example kept properly on the ground, the 10 is just too complicated to keep her going; just ask the RAF!

Tonks :cry:

Have to be honest im starting to agree with Tonks thoughts, its going to be much better to have one aircraft preserved in 100% condition than 2 preserved in a 'when money is there' condition, sorry Dave :(

Andy

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Manofmendip
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Manofmendip »

Hi Andy

We are all coming to that opinion.

Dave

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ACLVC10
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by ACLVC10 »

Manofmendip wrote:Hi Andy

We are all coming to that opinion.

Dave

Sad times :(:(

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vc10boy
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by vc10boy »

Magnum wrote:ZD241 is already at Bruntingthorpe I think.

ZA147 departed for the Falklands today amid rumours she is to remain there forever.

148 and 150 are due to make their final landing on 23rd September. :(

what rumours have you herd re 147 staying at the falklands, costs too much fuel to get her home?,bit of a trip for us vc10 nuts to go and see her?..bit more petrol than cosford?...,altho the freedome of the falklands is closely connected to the vc10,think there,s been a ten there since 1982?...on and off..
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buccaners2
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by buccaners2 »

Why should the VC10 be any less popular than something like the Vulcan which may I add has cost over 5 million pounds up to now and still needs more to keep flying then why cant we have a 10 flying as well.
, iam sorry but if vulcan to the sky would have said "well theres plenty in museums so why should we bother getting this one flying" there would have been public uproar,Dave and co have got a worth while plan to keep one of these wonderful aircraft flying a lot cheaper than the Vulcan and where else is there another RAF VC10, there's not any in museums.
This aircraft is unique just the sound alone is enough, so lets have a little less negative and lets all back what Dave and co are trying to achieve

Craig
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Re: what now for last K3s and the last K4

Post by Craig »

vc10boy wrote:
Magnum wrote:ZD241 is already at Bruntingthorpe I think.

ZA147 departed for the Falklands today amid rumours she is to remain there forever.

148 and 150 are due to make their final landing on 23rd September. :(

what rumours have you herd re 147 staying at the falklands, costs too much fuel to get her home?,bit of a trip for us vc10 nuts to go and see her?..bit more petrol than cosford?...,altho the freedome of the falklands is closely connected to the vc10,think there,s been a ten there since 1982?...on and off..
I'm pretty sure that's nonsense. I'm not RAF, but it's a small world down here and everything I've heard seems to suggest '147 will be in the UK in time for the VC-10 OSD. What is to replace her seems to be a little more uncertain, whispers are a Tristar, but that may again be wishful thinking! On the plus side, '147 still seems to be up and about plenty 8)

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