Tristar Fleet

[Craig]

Interesting Jazz, is there any details of the flight it undertook? That's certainly a very different story than the one I heard, and from someone who should know what he's on about Not doubting you, would just be nice to get to the bottom of it!

[Jazz707]

This is the common story and details as published in various places ("100 hours of flight test").

Reading between the lines, the "hacking the old cockpit out" and "too expensive to convert it back" could be referring to the same thing?!

[Craig]

This is the common story and details as published in various places ("100 hours of flight test").

Reading between the lines, the "hacking the old cockpit out" and "too expensive to convert it back" could be referring to the same thing?!

It's just the "flight test" bit that gets me, I've never seen any pics, publicity or otherwise of it flying post modification, and as I mentioned the person I spoke to said that the conversion was unsuccessful, but irreversible. It'd certainly be an interesting investigation into defence procurement as the one thing everything adds up to whatever the detail is an utter disaster and a massive waste of money and an airframe!

[Jazz707]

Just done a quick search and found lots of reports of test flights in 2010.

One good thread shows it (on one of several) visits to Brize during this time...

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/v ... 49#p110318

Read down the replys for the link to the glass cockpit... looks sweet!

Yes, yet another example of a disasterous UK defence project. Just different in that (by all acounts) the conversion was successful, but killed off by the 'impending' introduction of Le Tanker!

[Craig]

Just done a quick search and found lots of reports of test flights in 2010.

One good thread shows it (on one of several) visits to Brize during this time...

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/v ... 49#p110318

Read down the replys for the link to the glass cockpit... looks sweet!

Yes, yet another example of a disasterous UK defence project. Just different in that (by all acounts) the conversion was successful, but killed off by the 'impending' introduction of Le Tanker!

Interesting, thanks for that!

[Gsxr600]

The link to the photo of the glass cockpit describes it as an easily installed fit. I thought it was a custom bespoke design but apparently it's an off the shelf kit! The link below it shows the equivalent for the KDC10. I noticed the Dutch KDC10 at RIAT has this cockpit installed, I assumed it was an MD11 cockpit fit, but I think it's from the same company as the Tristar glass cockpit.

You've got to wonder what on earth went wrong for it to take so long and cost so much. Did they start customising it and fitting more stuff? It's not like it was even a proof of concept as this off the shelf cockpit had clearly been installed in other Tri-stars.

[Jazz707]

How many times do we see problems with aircraft programs/upgrades etc? And then when the technical issues are sorted, along come the politicians! Gotta feel for the guys on the ground (and the servicemen).

You mention the Dutch... Their first CUP (Cockpit Upgrade Programme), which is similar to the MD-10 upgrade (FedEx have flown them since 2000), was started on DC-10 T-255 in Autumn 2007, but after software and certification problems, was finally declared operational in Jan 2012... around 3 years late.

The upgrade on the two KDC-10's then went a lot smoother, taking 10 months and 6 months, with the final re-delivery at the end of May this year, three months ahead of schedule. The plan... for all three to stay in service until around 2025.

However, in April 2011, massive defence cuts were announced (to save EUR 1 Billion), with the DC-10 now to be withdrawn from service around the end of this year!

[Gsxr600]

Thanks for the info Jazz707. Interesting the DC10 upgrade took such a long time, makes Marshalls work on the Tristar seem quite comparible. As you say it's political indecision and u turns. Waste of a perfectly good airframe and millions of defence budget but there you go.

[Jazz707]

Obviously ZD949 is 'history', but it will be interesting to see what the Dutch do with their DC-10 now. Will it be used for parts to keep the 2 KDC-10's flying, or will they sell and try to recoup some costs (on what is still a very capable and well maintained airlifter, with modern cockpit upgrade)?

[Gsxr600]

Obviously ZD949 is 'history', but it will be interesting to see what the Dutch do with their DC-10 now. Will it be used for parts to keep the 2 KDC-10's flying, or will they sell and try to recoup some costs (on what is still a very capable and well maintained airlifter, with modern cockpit upgrade)?

If they have any sense they'll mothball it and wait for happier times when it can be used again. Just having the two KDC10s doesn't leave them with much capacity if one goes unserviceable which I understand was one of the reasons for acquiring it. Can't imagine they'll get anything like the investment made in it back. There's loads of second hand airliners parked up in Arizona when I was there in May. Why the UK didn't get some used DC10s or even some used 767s instead of the voyagers annoys me so much!!

[Jelle Hieminga]

I took this photo of ZE705 at Brize Norton during the enthusiasts day on 22 September. I wouldn't trade a VC10 for it but a Tristar is quite a nice looking piece of kit.

[1103]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned - I haven't read the whole thread.

When the RAF were considering a wide-body they test flew a BCAL DC10 and said if it was up to the RAF they would have chosen the DC10. At the time however BA, had some Tristars to dispose of.......

Paul

[Penfold011082]

ZE706 was taken out of service as it was due depth maintenance at some extortionate cost, and with the fleet OSD so close it was decided there was little point in going through the effort of it for just a few months flying at the end of it. It's fairly standard procedure - extend the maintenance as long as is legal then scrap it.

Interestingly, I have seen a picture of a glass cockpit Lockheed developed for the TriStar back in the 80's...

[Gsxr600]

When the RAF were considering a wide-body they test flew a BCAL DC10 and said if it was up to the RAF they would have chosen the DC10. At the time however BA, had some Tristars to dispose of.......

I hadn't heard that before. Just goes to show how much politics influences what the services actually get to use.

[Craig]

Is there any information yet out there about the Tristar fleet? Is there a projected draw down or will most of the fleet continue to serve up to March 2014 and then be withdrawn en masse?