Aileron Upset question

[jick]

Hello,

New here, from the States, and trying to dig up a little bit of history and put it to good use in the present. I'm working on an airplane design that might require wing bending relief, and I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible. In my research I found that the VC10 Aileron Upset system looks quite similar to what I'm thinking about, and I'm attempting to learn as much as I can about its design and operation.

Would anyone here be able to provide a detailed description of the Aileron Upset system? If you could provide system schematics, system descriptions, illustrated parts catalog entries, etc. it would be even better I'm particularly interested in how the upset actuator interacts with the cable quadrant near the aileron PCUs, and the details of that and related mechanisms.

Any help would be appreciated. As you might imagine, it's not particularly easy to obtain technical info on such a rare bird, and Flight International cutaways (see attached) only go so far...

Regards,

jick

[Tonkenna]

Hi Jick,

The aileron upset system was not originally designed for wing bending relief, but that is what it was eventually used for in the 10s later life. I have a paper that was written a few years ago that gives a very good description of the system and its evolving use if that is of interest to you... we used it to teach from on the VC10 Trg Flt. I have all the VC10 manuals and will have a look through those as well... the later ones had less information as to how it actually worked. I can give you the angles etc (used to know them by heart, but not flown a 10 for over a year now ). Some og the early manuals I have are far more detailed so will have a look in those for you.

I don't have a scanner at the moment, but if you drop me your address by pm I will stick a photo copy in the post for you. If I can scan it at work I will do that as well...

All the best,

Tonks

[jick]

Tonks,

The paper you mention and any of the other information would be of great interest. I'll send my address in a PM.

Thanks,

jick

[Jelle Hieminga]

Hi Jick,

I've had a quick glance in the manuals that I've got but the BA flying manual isn't much help and the drawings in a RAF technical manual don't show what you're looking for. For some reason the Aileron Upset components are not specifically shown on any drawing, but Tonks already mentioned that the newer manuals weren't much use for that. I seem to have confirmed that!

As for the angles, the tech manual states that: "the ailerons are normally up-rigged 2,5 degrees and may be mechanically deflected upward a further 8,5 degrees (with the flaps retracted) whenever the aircraft weight is in excess of 290,000 lb. at heights below 24,000 feet."

I'll see if I can find more but I'm guessing that Tonks has the better info on this.

[jick]

Jelle,

Thanks for this. Knowing the angle (and the rig angle) vs. what we're looking at is helpful. And I look forward to whatever further info Tonks can provide.

Much obliged,

Jick

[Tonkenna]

I have found the documents I was looking for

Tonks

[petet16]

We used to static rig the ailerons to 1.75" nose up, which equates to 2.5 degrees, we used a linear measurement because it was more accurate than a pantograph, and also meant we could rig the system without having to keep opening and closing the access panels.

The drawings of the aileron upset mechanism weren't up to much in the maintenance manuals, or the ipc as I recall.

[Jelle Hieminga]

Hello, I dug out a manual and scanned the relevant pages for you. The second image on the last page (just noticed that they are in reversed order, so it's the first one below) may be what you are looking for. I'm afraid this is as detailed as I can provide, Tonks may have better info than this.

[jick]

Thank you Jelle. The detail pics on page "4" confirmed some of my thoughts on this mechanism, and the rest of the descriptions are valuable as well.

Jick

[Tonkenna]

Kick,

I have sent you a few pages of stuff, let me know when you get it...

All the best,

Tonks

[jick]

Tonks,

I received it in the mail tonight, and look forward to reading it shortly. Thanks again!

jick

[jick]

I had reason to think of this conversation today, and thought I'd dig up my account info to send along an update. We didn't end up requiring an "upset mechanism" for the aircraft. But there was a period when we thought it might be necessary, and the info provided from here helped with determining its feasibility. That said, I was really hoping to use VC10 tech to solve a pseudo-modern design problem Still makes for a fun little story.

FYI, what it might have ended up on:

https://www.scaled.com/portfolio/stratolaunch/

jick

[Jelle Hieminga]

I appreciate the update, thank you! And it's amazing that this might have ended up on Stratolaunch, as I've followed that project with interest over the past few years!

[Tonkenna]

Thanks for the update... nice to know the aircraft you were working on. Fascinating stuff that's for sure!!

Andy