Just a thought

[Murray Keene]

Just an idle wondering about the Conways becoming life ex.

When the RB211 was tested on G-AXLR (XR809) it was seen as a complete success but twisted her spine. The power of one RB greater than 2 Conways!

WHY didnt they replace the engines on the fleet aircraft LATER with a PAIR of the new engines to replace the Conways, as I heard was rumoured in the late 70's whilst I was at Brize? That would have given the whole fleet an new lease of life. It wouldnt have been a PURE VC10 but I guess we would have come to love tham regardless, in time.

I know this was a serious plan at one stage does anyone know of it or WHY they didnt do it. The design was already THERE for the modified stub wing to mount the 211. This would have been an AWESOMELY powerful and QUIET VC10.

I know with ETOPS ratings at the time they wouldnt let a 2 engine aircraft DIRECTLY over the atlantic. As they do now. But the 777 broke that mould with her record breaking inaugural crossing. This now allows ETOPS on 2 engines.

Any of the 'old boys' out there at all, come on and join us! TENDET one step forward! RIP 10 squadron those were the days!

[MiniMadAndrew]

Why would you wanty a quiet VC10????????
The noise when you stand under the flight path is phenominal! I think that any plane QUIETER then a VC10 should be BANNED!!!!!!!!

[Craigo]

Just an idle wondering about the Conways becoming life ex.

When the RB211 was tested on G-AXLR (XR809) it was seen as a complete success but twisted her spine. The power of one RB greater than 2 Conways!

WHY didnt they replace the engines on the fleet aircraft LATER with a PAIR of the new engines to replace the Conways, as I heard was rumoured in the late 70's whilst I was at Brize? That would have given the whole fleet an new lease of life. It wouldnt have been a PURE VC10 but I guess we would have come to love tham regardless, in time.

I know this was a serious plan at one stage does anyone know of it or WHY they didnt do it. The design was already THERE for the modified stub wing to mount the 211. This would have been an AWESOMELY powerful and QUIET VC10.

I know with ETOPS ratings at the time they wouldnt let a 2 engine aircraft DIRECTLY over the atlantic. As they do now. But the 777 broke that mould with her record breaking inaugural crossing. This now allows ETOPS on 2 engines.

Any of the 'old boys' out there at all, come on and join us! TENDET one step forward! RIP 10 squadron those were the days!

are there any pics of this?

[LSS]

http://www.vc10.net/Memories/KenWhitePhotos.html

You get the idea

[Murray Keene]

I did have comprehensive pics of XR 809 (G-AXLR) from the days of ye olde film SLR cameras. Unfortunately My house got flooded and all these pics were trashed aaargh. I was on the scrapping team at Kemble.

It was quite interesting as if you stood in a certain place on the back of the old girl you could actually SEE the twist in her spine! The sheer guts of the 'ARBY' as they called it , bent the airframe all over the place. Its quite astounding the power of that one engine was greater than 2 conways! It must have been really interesting for the pilots flying her towards the end of the tests. I heard one saying that it took a fair amount of rudder and trim to stop her shimmying about bless her.

It was very sad tearing her to pieces but we all got some small souvenir to remember her greater days. We were allowed to take only stuff that was not usable on another frame. I got a few switches thats all. some of the guys got broken guages and bits and pieces. I cant remember who nicked the VC emblem and flag off the door, it went just after we were there. Ther is a rumour that it was in one of the messes one the old RAF Kemble. Although where it is now - who knows?

The thing to remember is that 'child of VC10' now shares Brize with her thanks to the develpoment of the new engines which went in the Tristar!

[LSS]

Sorry Off Topic

But

Murray

Does nearly 19 Years on VC10's Count ?

Worked on them at all ranks from SAC up
and still do mostly from a desk though

[LSS]

Did some recovery work on 809 at Kemble when I was based at RAF Abingdon.

Also remeber seeing it when doing circuits (sat in jump seat) in a BAE 146 in the ealry to mid 80's.

[Murray Keene]

19 years!!! wow you lucky git! I would have given my whole working life to have stayed on the VC10. When I left the RAF I should have paid THEM to take me back.

[Tonkenna]

I think the costs involved and the difficulties that would have to be overcome would be prohibative...

Part of the problem would be recertification, particularly to Perf A. At the moment we assume the loss of one engine on t/o... ie 25% of the power. With only 2 engines you have to plan on a loss of 50% of the power. Now whilst there may well be enough power left in the one engine to climb away (much like there is if you loose two currently.... just... most of the time ) I am not sure that there would be the rudder control to keep the ac going in a straight line. Although the thrust line is very close to the centre of the ac on the ten there is still a certain amount of assymetric effect, especially after loosing two on the same side, so loosing one even more powerful donk would be interesting.

There is also the conversion of the engine mountings and the fatigue of all that extra thrust and a myriad of other problems... sadly there are just not the number of airframes to make that sort of conversion viable especially as each one would be slightly different... just look at the problems thay are having converting MR2s to MR4s... each one is effectively bispoke.

It would look shite too

Tonks